I support the cameras in school zones, but am very skeptical for anywhere else.

Please tell Quirk enough is enough! We need money for education and better community services. We need police on our streets not cameras that often do not work right. If my money is an issue, spend it wisely, not on cameras.

Hello big brother. Always for the children or public safety. Perhaps before they add more cameras, Mr. Quirk & Co can explain why these cameras click away in 'construction zones' when no one is working? Orange cones yes, workers no.

Do we have numbers on how much these cameras raise each month/year in ticket revenue? Do we then have numbers that represent how much these "help" the zones in which they're located?

Want to see how well these things work? Travel on 695 around 1400-1800 on any given work day and see how bad traffic is backed up, regardless of whether or not construction is actually happening, and then see how effective they are at causing people to slow down.

People see these things and immediately slam on the brakes, causing accidents and delays. Their primary use is as a revenue raising tool, nothing more, nothing less.

Traffic cameras are not a panacea, nor are they meant to be. There are some few locations, however, thoughtfully chosen on a case-by-case basis, where they are completely appropriate. Ebenezer Road, in Perry Hall, with an elementary school, middle school, and high school close together in one concentrated stretch is a good example. The high speed traffic, frequent accidents, and potential for serious tragedy all point to a need for greater "traffic calming". I support the proposed approach, and think that Dave Marks and Tom Quirk can craft a workable compromise to address this need. I hope that it will not take another pedestrian death to persuade a majority of the council to support the extension of this safety measure.
Our communities are well served by BCPD, but officers can't be everywhere. Properly designed systems are an effective supplement to routine labor-intensive enforcement activities, like speed reduction in critical areas.

I have never understood the animosity towards traffic cameras. They work to keep speeds regulated. Don't tell me the unreasonable right is for doing away with speed limits? I would also argue that our nation is seeing a reduction in crime in part due to the increased number of surveillance cameras.

I like the cameras they have slowed traffic down, BUT NOT ENOUGH this 12 miles over the limit is wrong.
After a posted warning and some warnings on the local news the speed should not have a buffer of more than 5 miles pere hour, to alllow for the difference in the speedometer this is really necessary in school zones.
I do not agree that the cameras should be for use around public schools and construction zones only.
They should be around ALL SCHOOLS

Not a fan of the cameras, the gov't ties every idea to helping schools, in this instance sidewalks etc. but I don't believe they really ever use the money the way they say they will or in a responsible way. We are tired of being bullied into agreeing just because you attach a "it is good for the children" phrase to every pet project! And why are public schooled kids protected by the camera's and not private schools, where is the logic in that one? Government thinks they know what is best, our voices are not heard anyway.

But the one question not answered is - did it increase safety? Where are the crash stats? And if it is about safety, why is there no mention of traffic engineers and engineering studies? How can you fix a flaw in the road design with a camera? Where is the evidence that slowing traffic down by a few mph reduces the number of accidents in these areas?

Times are tough and the city is looking for more money, and this is how they want to do it.

Then of course, there are the other questions that are never asked. What is the error rate for these machines? Who calibrates them and how often? How many tickets are being issued erroneously? How does it help to send a ticket to the OWNER instead of the DRIVER? How does it help to send a ticket WEEKS AFTER the offense is committed? The driver is not the owner about 28% of the time, so how does that help? How do cameras remove dangerous drivers from the road if no points are issued on the drivers licenses?

Face it, the cameras are ALL ABOUT MONEY. It's time to start a petition drive to let the citizens VOTE on whether or not they want to be TAXED in this manner.

Gee, Councilman Quirk, that did not take long at all. A cash cow. I am not a bit surprised. I was hoping your first bill would be relocation of the Wilkins Police Station or a jobs bill. Well, I guess we will have to wait for that. Our police need a better house to leave and return to when they are on duty. It is despicable to have that station remain in that condition any longer. But, maybe with enough tickets from the new cameras you could afford one, but I doubt that is your bottom line. I have tried to get an idea what the speed camera on Hollins Ferry Road near Lansdowne High School has generated (if it works at all!) No one can tell me who to call or where to go find out. This is going to be a fun 4 years!!

I can't speak to any other school zone except for Ridgely Middle. Many use charmuth road as 83 East. 50mph even as kids cross the street. We really, really need help here. I've talked to Jim Brouchin and the chief of police and we were still skipped in the 1st round of cameras. Even if it helps a little - bring'em on!!!

Councilman Quirk is right in requesting additional cameras. There are numerous tactics law enforcement agencies will use in enforcing traffic laws. Speed cameras are just one of the tools in their enforcement arsenal.

Gary may be right in the condition of the Wilkins Precinct and the need for a solution. I would say that the revenues generated by these cameras could be used for numerous county projects.

I would rather see arrogant, clueless aggressive drivers foot the bill. The police are in business for one reason, you can't trust all of citizenry to obey the laws.

Speed cameras are a cash cow! Yes they can help reduce the speed in school zone, but why are they operating well beyond school hours? Answer CASH COW! What is the 12mph over about? Can you honestly say a child struck by a vehicle traveling 25mph will do less damage than a child struck at 35mph. Any injury is too much. Think about what this society is turning into. Have we lost all of our common senses? Do we really need the Govt to legislate our morality? Where is personal responsibility? We need the Govt to give it? Political correctness? Ug!

Speed cameras! Revenue generators! They do NOT make conditions safer. It would be cheaper to sit an unmanned police vehicle in an area that is concerning. THAT would serve to slow down motorists.

What private companies are profiting from these expensive camera systems, and is someone getting a kickback? Why isn't there any accounting or accountability for the cameras that are currently in place? Didn't I read somewhere that the statistics show that cameras make an area LESS SAFE (but do generate revenues)? Can we get an expose' on the speed camera industry, or at least some hard facts?

I'm just a bit wary when politicians offer no information but to warn us to "think of the children" while they line their coffers (and their friend's pockets) with our tax dollars and these un-contestable fines... color me jaded, but it sounds like a con to me.

I agree with a comment that we need to see more of the facts. From what I see, read and have experienced though, the Scam Cam Program is a gross abuse of something that COULD have potential. But since greed and/or an easy fix for past incompetence/BS are motivators here, politicians and gullible citizenry are all of a sudden interested in "enforcement". If done properly, according to common sense, logic and ethics, under the watchful eye of "watchdogs" with common sense, logic and ethics, the TRUE speeders and idiots could be controlled somewhat, but that would cut into the profits that are already figured into the budget.
Also, when you hear the propaganda like "Speed Cameras have reduced speed by 5-7 mph", ask yourself "But has it improved safety?" Overall it has either made no difference (except to make money) or, where it has made a difference, increased accidents. Also the propaganda I saw on a bus, something like "Speeding is Aggressive Driving". BE AWARE OF THE ALMIGHTY "HALF TRUTH" More accurately and all-encompassingly, though, it should be called "Partial Truth". i.e.: "Speeding" IS "Aggressive Driving", but what is "Speeding"? You can compare the propaganda to a sales pitch: When you hear/see, for example, "25%, 50%, etc OFF", ask "Off of WHAT? The price that was already jacked-up?"
Lastly, are these the types of things that happened in England to make our forefathers come to America, the "New World?" No wonder I'm hearing more of space travel nowadays.

P.S. to "J.K.":
No wonder I'm hearing more of space travel nowadays. Where will (United States of) Americans go? I feel "These Colors (Red, White and Blue)" don't run. That's why we must educate ourselves AND STAND UP (and at least) TO BE HEARD. Which brings me to some "facts". I read that some government statistics show an overall increase of accidents where Scam Cams have been installed.* I also read that the facts/statistics that politicians wanting more Scam Cams are quoting actually come from the companies selling the cameras! If so (seemingly logically the only place from which they can be getting such warped figures), wouldn't that be Conflict of Interest? I'd love more input on this one! That's why we "shouldn't let them have their toys": Because no matter what we (the people) do, they [corrupt/incompetent politicians (and gullible citizenry)] will be "back to business as usual" as soon as We the People turn our backs.
*27Nov2010 AND approximately, from memory about a month or two before 27Nov2010 @Northern Pkwy and Fenwick Ave Westbound (Near Post Office) were accidents (Scam Cam location). I've been travelling that road since 1993 and NEVER saw an accident there before the advent of Scam Cams. How many more have been even at that one location of which I don't know, and how many more will there be, even at that one location? I don't think that those making the money even care, as long as the money keeps rolling in.

P.P.S. to "P.S. to J.K.":
Wouldn't it be nice to give Mr. Quirk and other like-minded politicians some truth serum to see if they actually believe themselves re: Scam Cams (incompetence) or ar getting something out of the deal (BS)?

WOW! Bryan, I'd say Mr. Quirk has struck a sensitive nerve with his proposal for more speed cameras... However, I agree with one response... if you obey the law, you can smile as you drive past every single speed camera... AND it won't be a CASH COW if people obey the law and no tickets are issued! After sitting in traffic court with a friend who had to pay $250 for a speeding ticket, I found an easy answer to our economic problem! IF all those who have a traffic ticket opted to spend $200 in a store instead of speeding and paying the Courts, stores would be booming and more people would have jobs and the economy would greatly improve. YET, as evidenced by the court dockets, hundreds of people choose to drive in an unsafe manner -- always in a hurry... and paying large fines!
I do object to one responders comment that the cameras should only be near public schools. WHY? Are the children in private schools more resistent to accidents, serious bodily harm and death than the children who attend public schools? This is about safety no religion! This is about asking the public to obey the posted speed limit.
Are speed cameras the answer to all our woes? NO, but they have made a difference in many places! Go Mr. Quirk, Mr. Marks, and Mrs. Bevins! Who's the fourth?! Go for it!

Wow, seems to me that some folks advocate breaking the rules as long as the "time" is right??? should we not follow the Laws regaurdless of what time it is??? If school is in session or not, the speed should be followed. What about extra ciricular activities at school??? How do you you adjust that time??? a construction zone is a dangerous place... under construction equals heavy equipment parked on the side of the road, or even narrow areas... to say no workers let's speed. come on folks I 'm not sure if more cameras are the issue but I do know only wanting to follow the rules when it's convenient for ourselves is not.

Look, we all know speeding is very common. But there are two ways to deal with it:

1) Get pulled over by a cop who is liable to be grumpy, mean and / or lecherous. Waste half an hour while he looks over your record to make sure you're not wanted for everything else. Choose between a hefty fine and half a day in court (and if the judge is grumpy, you may get both!) Risk points on your license and / or increased insurance costs as a result.

2) Find out after the fact that you've been caught. (Day is not ruined.) Pay a $40 fine (minimal cost) online or by mail. (Time is not wasted.) Shrug it off and slow down.

Personally, I prefer the second option, and not just because I support Tom Quirk!

Oh, look. We elected O'Malley-lite. And he'll give you a Promenade to boot!!

Emily,

Tell that to the innocent people who get tickets. I got one on I-95 for going 67mph (which is kind of funny because that is exactly the tripper point), the problem is that my cruise control was set to 57mph, my GPS showed 57mph, and the mobile speed sign was also showing 58mph, and I got a ticket anyway.

Do these cameras work, yes. Do these cameras always worked correctly, NO. Something simple as a lane change confuses the system and a wrong ticket can be given. I have spent hundreds of hours and last few months researching the WorkZone speed camera system and let me tell you, they don't always work correctly. The operators manual is considered "Industrial Trade Secret", because they don't want the public to know a lot of things about these.

One more interesting facts is that these WorkZone speed device, stops tracking the vehicle once a speed reading is taken, the problem is that the photo isn't taken until later, sometime way later. In some cases it is possible for the vehicle to travel around 80 feet which can be as much as 6 car lengths, THE SYSTEM DOESN'T KNOW IF TOOK A PHOTO OF THE CORRECT CAR. Therefore, it can and sometimes does give a ticket to the wrong car/driver.

When will Quirk be honest and openly say "The cameras bring in money as well??" Honesty would be nice.

No name mentioned, but to the individual who thinks it's a simple matter of "obeying the law", keep in mind that the vast majority of people getting zapped are law-abiding & DO put forth great driving effort. So if you use Scam Cams(SC) as a "character reference" to refudiate that, you might also use Adolf Hitler as a character reference on a job application: i.e.: similar credibility. SCs are set too low, sometimes incorrectly & leave-out other important factors (it's like like wearing horse blinders). So please do your homework & realize your half (partial) truth & PLEASE don't be a gullible Do-Gooder (Well-intentioned Bumbler). Go to the site (from memory) StopBig Brother.Org (to get a start for spending days of investigation). I said, my better half said & many of the people to whom I spoke during my investigation said the same thing to others & still got zapped. All have one thing incommon: All are easy, careful drivers. All have good to great Situational Awareness (seeing what's actually on the road: SCs adds another obstacle) & run a great Risk Assessment (clear road). Granted there are some true speeders & reckless drivers. If the SC program were implemented & Watchdogged properly (common sense, logic & ethics) many of them could be gotten...or do you want that the Great U.S.A. turn into the England from which our Forefathers came in order to make this great United States of America?

Everyone knows where those cameras are. If you still speed past one, you are a fool, and quite frankly deserve the ticket. Say all you want about cash grabs and cash cows and cash giraffes and cash elephants, if you are speeding you really have no room to talk. If you spent half as much time changing your actions as you do complaining, you would soon realize you have much less to complain about.

I did not know that those in the work zones, like those on the beltway, were only supposed to be operational until 8:00 p.m. Then why did my husband get a ticket for one after 8:00 at night ?

Amen, Toucan!

Stan, what I said was that speeding is very common and if I choose to speed, I would prefer to be caught by a camera rather than by a person. I didn't say the fine was a license to speed; in fact, what I said was that I'd slow down after paying it.

Tom, I am extremely sympathetic to your situation and support your right to argue your case in the courts, as many others have (a Physics teacher I know brought in her class, who proved the camera's margin of error was great enough to have clocked the wrong car.) However, it should be noted that police officers, being human, are also subject to error -- maybe even more so!

If you dont speed why do you worry about speed cameras? No construction workers that I know of hav e been hurt by traffic around here, but boy, watch out when it happens, than everyone will be on the bandwagon for a camera, especially if it is
someone you know or a child.

I agree that everyone is allowed to have his/her opinion. But people , please educate yourself before making comments like, "if you don't speed you don't need to worry", etc.....

Do the research first instead of repeating what the government tells you. God gave us a brain use it.

And by the way, speed doesn't kill. Look at Germany for example, until a few years ago most highways in Germany didn't have speed limits, some still don't, and their roads are one of the safest in the world.

If it's truly about safety, then Quirk's proposed legislation should reflect that Councilmembers have no say or review as to where the cameras be located.

Now I am thoroughly confused. Did this law passed last year empower the county to put speed cameras at construction zones, at schools, or both? I've begun to think we are conflating two entirely different issues here.

Stan, looks like Tom stuck a nerve, wait, a whole bunch of nerves on this one.

This would be something that might be of interest to a political strategist regarding name recognition.

I traveled 95 yesterday at 65 mph, and got blown off the road, and this was in the slow lane.

I would be interested in some ideas from those who are apposed in how do we deal with these traffic safety issues. Keep in mind the cost factor and the allocation of available police manpower.

This issue of traffic safety ranks near the top regarding police work. It is often the most discussed topic at community association meetings.

Buzz,

It's not the speed that is the problem, it is the people that don't know how to drive. I have a simple solution.. On a three lane highway, like I-95, do this, right lane max speed limit 55mph, middle lane 65mph, left lane 75mph... Don't allow people on cells phone driving 55mph in the left lane.
Better driver education, because the training required to get a license in the US is a joke.
Remember it isn't the speed but the difference of speed that usually causes accidents. If all vehicle drive 75mph or 80 mph, the possibility of an accident is very small. But when you have some driving 55mp in the left lane, than you get some idiots who will jump in and out of traffic to get past this guy... This behavior causes accidents. Not someone going 75mph on a straight road.

Re: Speed Cameras If you ain't speeding, you got nothin' to worry about...

Stan,
good comments. and you are right. As I have driven in many different countries especially Europe, I have some experience what really works in these situations. a.) getting a driver's license must be made a little harder. A simple 10min test in a parking lot is a joke. b.) driving 75, 85, 90 mph is not a problem as long as it's done save. You got some open road with limited traffic, fine go faster.. But once you have to start weaving in and out lane. It's time to slow down. c.) the penalties for breaking the law
have to be more severe. If you were just going faster maybe not, but once you start changing lanes and
cutting people off, then yes... As I have done 150mph runs on the German Autobahn, I can tell you that I felt save knowing that everyone else on the road knew what they were doing and every time you see car in your rear mirror, you move over. 150mph is too fast, but a speed limit of about 80-90mph, on good Maryland highways (traffic and condition permitting) shouldn't be a problem.
But going back to the main subject. As an engineer how has spent 100's of hours in the last few month researching these speed cameras, I can tell you that I found too many errors and issues with them.

To ALL:
I just received a tip from a German lawyer friend of mine, that just last month - Dec of 2010, after expert analysis a report was published in Germany (home of the speed camera we use in the Workzone and school zones in most of Maryland) that addressed the accuracy and reliability issues with the system.
It confirms that there is a problem with the way this system measures speed and then takes the photos. According to the exert report, the system on many occasions issued the ticket to the wrong vehicle. Also according to the report the manuf. Vitronics is issuing a software update that will address this issue, but not completely.
However, that means that for at least one year now, the speed cameras have been giving tickets to the wrong people.
Here is a link to the report, however, it is in German.
http://www.geblitzt-was-tun.de/images/stories/dokumente/fehlmessungen-mit-poliscan-speed-roland-bladt-2010.pdf
BTW, this issue was suspected before and now has been proven at least a couple of times with indep. tests.

Zach,
What you are referring to is a little different. The software made an error is doing OCR on your plate. What brings in another issue. These tickets should be checked and verified by someone, but they aren't. A lot of times they are just rubber stamped and approved. Don't ask me how I know. (hint: a friend on the force that actually does that.).
What I am referring to, is that one vehicle breaks the speed limit, but the camera takes a photo of a different car that wasn't speeding.

Prediction: we'll have hundreds of speed cameras in Baltimore County by 2020. Instead of addressing speed and safety issues at schools individually, we'll get an open-ended bill that will allow a cash-starved county government the ability to extract even more of your freedoms and personal wealth. Will the voters ever learn?

Steve, I would say not only will the voters ever learn, they don't even show up to vote.

Last years primary proved that. Sad but true. One of the lowest turnouts on record.

Amen to that!

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Why if speeding is soooooo awful, the demon of the road ways as portrayed, is the penalty for it so small? Why is the person who owns the car ticketed, not the driver? Could it be that it really isn't as much of a problem as we are told it is, because if it were so bad, why pinch drivers into submission instead of punching them into it with higher fines, points, loss of drivers license, etc?

If the state is so worried about actual speeding, then make the penalty for it more of a deterrent, if not, we see these programs are there to generate money, not save lives-the police reports prove accidents have not gone down in the speed cameras locations. Setting the fine at $40 is right about where a person says screw it, it's not worth going to court-I"ll just pay it, which is exactly what the state wants----the $$$$$$$$$$$

If Baltimore County government would put them on Elm Ridge Ave in NORTHERN ARBUTUS they could Really Cash In!!, maybe save a child life at the bus stop or even speed bumps, we have plenty of traffic Violators avoiding both traffic lights on Maiden choice road. WE WELCOME THE CAMERAS Bring down on our street Why wait for someone to be killed?